Name: Freedom to flow: How to build a business that moves with you
Uploaded: 2025-06-25T17:32:11.491Z
Duration: 1 h 2 min 13 s
Description: Freedom to flow: How to build a business that moves with you

Transcript for "Freedom to flow: How to build a business that moves with you": are really building things that don't always fit neatly in a bin or on a pallet. And that is the perspective you'll hear from Nico Evans today joining us from new productions. So together, they're both gonna help us unpack what founders actually need to grow their business. So like I said, whether you're shipping products, you're producing content, or even just doing kind of a little bit of everything, which Nico here does, You're gonna hear it all today. So to kick us off, I wanna start with a little, interaction in the chat. So if you could drop in, what part of your business setup is holding you back right now from making bigger moves? But just kind of love to hear your guys' perspective, what's holding you back. So while you're doing that, I'm gonna go ahead and introduce our speakers. So joining us first is Matt Hertz. Like I mentioned, he's the founder of Third Person, and he is a logistics matchmaker essentially for over a 100 ecommerce brands. His career spans major brands like Birchbox, Rent the Runway. So he really knows what happens when ops break and how to fix them. Matt, anything you'd like to add before we dive in? Yeah. Maybe maybe just a quick bit. Yeah. I'm really excited to be here, Monica and Mico, you know, to be, Shannon with you as well. Yeah. I don't think we have to, you know, belabor the introduction, Monica. You did a a good job. But, yeah, really, really excited to meet all of y'all and, you know, obviously, over the, you know, the next few minutes here, the next hour, and even after, I was happy to be a resource to anyone who asked questions, and are sort of contemplating different things as it relates to, shipping and logistics and, ecommerce in general. I've spent the last fifteen or so years in this space, so I was happy to be, you know, a resource and a friend to those, who are seeking it. Awesome. Well, we're happy to have you on here. And also, like I said, joining us from the Saltbox side, our member, Meeko Evans. He is the founder and executive producer of Meek Productions, which is the world's first LGBTQ plus talent and production company. It is pride month, so wanna shout that out. He uses Saltbox to unify everything from content creation to merchandise shipping, all under one roof. And his story really is a perfect example of how creative entrepreneurs can rethink their ops setup. Nico, happy to have you. Love for you to give any introduction that you see fit. I mean, thank you so much once again. You and Matt, it is such an honor and a pleasure to be here with you all. And like I said, I'm a Saltbox fan. And, I'm I'm keen to be known as what the mayor of Saltbox here at Westside Park here in Atlanta. So I love that. I'm just I'm just great, grateful to be here and everything like that. So you did an awesome job and, just really, excited to to to, you know, discuss about how this particular brand of our coworking space and warehouse space is actually needed for, the small business community, nationally. So I'm looking forward to getting into that. Awesome. Well, happy to have you. Let's go ahead and get right into it. So we have a series of questions. This will be just an AMA style conversation. If you have questions throughout, feel free to drop them in the chat. But, also, there's a q and a tab, at the top of the chat as well. So if you have specific questions that you want Mico or Matt to address at the end, drop them in that q and a tab, and we will get to them. Alright. So we're gonna start strong, founder energy versus founder reality. So, Matt, I actually wanna start with you. You've worked with a range of ecommerce brands, and I'm curious what triggers, make or break operational growth for the brands you work with. Yeah. I I I think the, I hope this will answer your question, Monica. But, as I sometimes say, I should have been a politician because I'm good at not answering the question that's asked of me. But, no kidding aside, friends. Yeah. I I I think one one one, characteristic or trait, or trend maybe is the better word that I often see, with the ecommerce brands, the the, you know, direct to consumer brands that are more, successful than others or those that really invest in the operations. And that could be, you know, bringing on or, you know, hiring or working with an individual, who has experience in operations, you know, from the early days, might be a little bit biased. But, you know, when I think about some of the startups that I was a part of when they were truly a startup and they were very, very small, you know, Monica, I think you mentioned earlier, you know, Rent the Runway and Birchbox, two brands that, many of us are probably familiar with. I was a very early employee at both those companies, and then I was responsible for operations. So, scale or, you know, scaling is really, really difficult, you know, whether that's scaling marketing or scaling operations or scaling, you know, technology or any other facet of the business. And operations specifically, is really, really difficult to scale if you don't have the right infrastructure in place early. So I always encourage, you know, brands that are looking to scale rapidly in their first couple years to invest in people, to invest in resources. And, of course, nowadays, AI is fantastic, but, it truly doesn't replace people. I think people who know AI replace people who don't know AI, you know, which maybe we can talk about later. But, but, yeah, I think, you know, in short, really, really investing in people who understand operations, who've been there, done that, and who can, avoid making the same pitfalls than many brands who maybe are not as successful, who end up unsuccessful fall into because they're not thoughtful about certain decisions that they make in their earliest days. Yeah. That's a good point. And, you know, you and I talked a little bit about this in our discovery call too of, like, coming from Shopify. You know, I have a background of working at Shopify. I worked at another start up called Deliver that was then acquired by Shopify. You see that a lot with the small brands just kind of not knowing what that next step is operationally. And sometimes when you're growing so fast, it's hard to tell when is the right moment to kind of pass that off to someone else. And so I'm curious. How do you really guide those founders and those small businesses who might not even know what they need yet? You know, they're saying, I'm outgrowing my home. I have boxes piled up in the living room, but they don't wanna maybe go to a three p l just yet or they're not sure what the solution is for them. How do you kind of guide them through that process at third person? Yeah. I mean, I I, I generally help brands, or, you know, advise brands, to seek support or seek community from other, you know, like minded individuals. So, you know, whether that's, you know, different social channels, you know, Reddit communities, even though Reddit can be a bit of a a dumpster, maybe not the most effective place to kind of seek thoughtful perspective or opinion. Although it does exist in some corners, but there are, you know, other, Slack communities. You know, I can think of communities like start up CPG, you know, which which maybe some of us are involved in. There's a, a company called, Parabola that's got a community called the SOP community, all free, but there's a lot of like minded individuals just kind of trading ideas and sharing stories. So, there's a lot of bad information. Yeah. Let's see. There's a fan of startup CPG here in the chat, so that's good. Yeah. I I you know, there's a lot of, you know, misinformation, not to sound overly cliche here, you know, as it relates to what you should or shouldn't do, in terms of building your, you know, early, you know, fulfillment, you know, network and decision. So, you know, third person, you know, we built a platform that helps, brands, you know, emerging and high growth, startups and ecommerce brands discover the best fulfillment provider. So, you know, of course, Saltbox, you know, is one of the providers on our platform, you know, for those where Saltbox is a is a good fit for their specific needs, but there's literally thousands and thousands of fulfillment options just here in The United States alone, and that's not even including doing it yourself. You know, generally, my philosophy is, to do the fulfillment yourselves as long as possible because you learn a lot, and it gives you control of the process. There's the ability to, add certain touches to, you know, the fulfillment or to the the unboxing experience that maybe an outsourced fulfillment company, a three p l, is unable to do. You know, I know, Mikko, you're, starting or maybe have recently started in, you know, apparel or footwear, you know, ecommerce business as part of, you know, your company. And, you know, I trust you'll you'll be using Saltbox, you know, to support with the fulfillment there. But, you know, I think as you, you know, scale and as your needs develop, Saltbox might be able to play a role for part of the business, but maybe there's someone else that you can graduate to who can support you, you know, for other needs that your business might have. Yeah. That's you made a ton of great points in this section. So two that I actually wanna hit on, you were talking a lot about, community. And some of those, resources like startup CPG or you mentioned a couple others as well. But we also here at Saltbox for our members have a platform called Upstream, which is exclusive to our members right now. We hope to get as big as start up CPG at some point and make it available to the public. But, essentially, you have access to resources and, access to other entrepreneurs too who can answer some of those questions and make it feel a little less lonely. So, just wanted to shout that out. And then the second point that you made, which I really love, is that, you know, sometimes before or sometimes when you go to a three p l, you lose that control and you lose that visibility. And that's something that's really important to call out because I think as a small brand, you wanna keep as much control in house as you can. Like you said, not being able to do custom inserts or branded packaging. You know, that's a big part of a lot of these small brands and how they stand out. And I think the more you can control that experience, the better it will be for your brand and your customer experience. So we'll hear a little bit from Mikko on his side of things. But I love that you called that out because that is so important and something we hear all the time from brands who either came from a three p l to Saltbox or who are considering a three p l. And we have those conversations of, like, hey, what is it you're really looking for? Do you do you really value that customer experience? Do you really value having your branded, packaging and things like that? Because those are things to consider that a lot of people don't think about, when making a fulfillment change. Anything else, Matt, that you wanna add before I move to Meeko? I think the only other quick thing I would I would mention, just to avoid doubt is, there really is no one size fits all solution. Right? Like, every brand you know, like, I I I always use this analogy when I'm talking to to brands and and and just, you know, folks in the ecosystem that the relationship between a fulfillment provider and a brand is like a marriage. Right? It's like the relationship between two people. And just like, you know, I can't ask my best friend, you know, or, you know, just like, you know, if I have a, you know, a good friend who's married to someone, that person they're married to might be a wonderful, you know, man or or woman, but doesn't mean that they'll make a wonderful spouse for me. That's not like they're a bad person or I'm a bad person, but it's just that we're people and people have specific, characteristics or values that, you know, may not be compatible with someone else, and that's okay. Right? That's what makes the world go around. And I think when it comes to fulfillment, I mean, not to hit too close to home with, like, you know, the marriage between two people, but, there is a lot of, a correlation or or or relationship between, you know, a brand of three p l. So, just because Monica's three p l, whether it's Saltbox or someone else, is great for Monica's business, doesn't mean they'll make a great partner for me. So it's really important to meet them, get to know them, understand how they communicate. You know, there's so many variables that kind of you throw in the hopper to really start to understand who's a good fit for you. Yeah. That's a really good point. I love the marriage, analogy. That's perfect. I've never thought of it that way. Okay. Awesome. So, Mico, I wanna pass to you. You were running Meek Productions in a co working space before you came to Saltbox. So I really wanna understand what was the turning point for needing something different. Well, yeah. My my case was very unique because where I was, it was a new coworking space that kinda existed. I think it was, like, in their first quarter of existence, and this was right before the pandemic. And so I found out about them because I went from one coworking space to this one. And, this was located in the East Atlanta Village area, of Atlanta. And, I think when I found out about them, they had an ad on Facebook. And so I was like, okay. That's not too far from where I, you know, reside, where I live. So let me go check them out and everything like that. And so it was sort of like what I was always familiar with, just next on the next level. So, unfortunately, when the pandemic happened, a lot of things kind of slowed down and everything like that. And so the, the previous owners of that particular spot had to turn it everything back over to the real estate company. And so the real estate company continued to try to run it. And so but when I was there, I started as just a coworking member just for access, and then I grew to my own office. And so I was there for about at least four years. And then right in during the fall of twenty twenty two, that's when all all of us who were still there found out that that the real estate owners kinda sold the business, ran off from under us. Us. And so we had, like, a month to try to find a new place to try to relocate. Lo and behold, doing research online, I run across this little beautiful thing called Saltbox. Oh, because I said wait a minute. Saltbox? And looked at the area. I said okay. That's not too far from where I used to reside, because I had my own place, like, around the corner from the, the first location which is on Seaboard Industrial. And, this was during the time when you all were still building this location I'm in now, which is Westside Park on Chattahoochee. And so, I was encouraged by the, location manager at the time. Was it Shamika, I think? But, was was encouraged to wait till this one finished to actually see, you know, the full vision of Saltbox and stuff. Because what I saw was actually, awesome because what drew my attention to Saltbox was, not that, not just the opportunity that they had both office space and warehouse space. I said, okay. Once I start getting more into developing my merchandise, component of my production company where we, you know, wanna produce souvenirs, not just for the company itself, but also for the talents we represent, in the events that we do, I said I have a location to grow and expand on that end. But when I saw the content studio, I was like, oh, this is a all in one type thing. So that's what drew me. That's what kept me locked in. I said, let me wait to see what the next location looks like. When I saw Westside Park, I'm like, oh, I'm sold. I was sold off the first tour. I love that. Those two. And now granted, this was before they actually added the podcast studio because the podcast still being wasn't here. The content studio was, but the podcast studio wasn't here yet, and they had just started building it once I moved in. And so I was able to provide some additional consulting along with that, along with the other one of the other members that was here that was already doing stuff along those lines and stuff like that. So, like I said, you know, it was a win win. So, I was sold and staying and stuff. And like I said, you know, I I've been an entrepreneur for thirty years. February 10, mark mark thirty years of entrepreneurship for me. And so I've been a part of, you know, coworking space and office space for a minute. And I remember when back then before it was called coworking, before it was called virtual office, it was just called office membership back in the day. You talking about, like, late I'm dating myself here. So, so I've been around, you know, the whole coworking thing for a minute. And so when I saw Saltbox and when I saw the setup, I'm like, this is very unique, And it's something that is very needed in particular to those people who produce their own products, manufacture their own products, but needed a space to grow and expand and to move out of their garage in their homes or what have you, or out of their bedrooms in their homes and stuff and have a professional space where they can actually grow. And I think that's one of the unique things that Saltbox has over the competition. You have the variety of setups that you can start out with. If you just a a straight up office, you know, that does consulting, whether it be a production or just, entrepreneurial consulting or business consulting, you can start off with the access membership, go into the office. And then then if you're a person that actually, you know, needs a a space to do manufacturing and, distributing for any products that you, that you sell, you actually have small warehouse space that you can, start off with, and then you grow into a bigger warehouse space if you want to. And so I love the fact that you can grow and expand as the business grows, as the business matures. And that is always important. Because like I said, I came up during a time where there wasn't a lot of options for new start up businesses, small businesses, and micro enterprises, and home based businesses. So to see how entrepreneurship and how technology has expanded the field of entrepreneurship is very remarkable. And you all play a wonderful part in that, and you're doing really well. So you're hired for a marketing team. No. I'm just kidding. That was a really good explanation. You nailed that. But no. You made some really good points. And I think, you know, even though your push to Saltbox was a little different than maybe, a strictly ecommerce brand's push would have been. You know, you were growing, but it was more so your co working space said, hey. We're we're peace out. We're done. Yeah. And that forced you to find something new. But also, if you were starting with the other e commerce side, you would have maybe outgrown your home and said, oh, I need to find something new or I need a a bit more space. I don't wanna ruin my marriage as Matt was talking about marriage earlier because there's boxes everywhere. You know? So I think it's going back to Matt's point too, like, it's not one size fits all. Everybody is different, and everybody has different needs. So what works or what might have been your situation might be a little different for someone else. But, you know, we have all those amenities. We have the warehouse. You can scale up or even scale down. I mean, we're in some really uncertain times right now. And, you know, the economy, we don't really know what's gonna happen. So small businesses are a little nervous right now to make these big leaps to a year long lease or year long commitment. So just having that ability to, you know, flexibility to grow and to scale down as needed is huge and something we hear all the time about, our members loving. So I wanna shift a little bit, to understand how changing your workspace setup, Mikko, really changed the way that you run your business. You said you're adding some ecommerce aspect. You're adding, apparel and shoes for some of the folks that you work with, some of your clients. So just wanna hear a little bit about how you're gonna be changing the way that you work, in an office to add some of those aspects of a warehouse to your, membership here at Saltbox. One of the things that really inspired me to even stay even longer at South Boston. Like I said, I'm a be here till the cows come home. Y'all gonna have to kick me out. We're gonna be dragging you out of the front door. I like I've been around this rodeo for a while. And so like I said, I know a vision. I guess, you know, visionaries know other, you know, visionaries as well. And so they know another good vision and concept when they see it. And so one of the things that, like I said earlier, that I love about Saltbox is the fact that if your business grows and matures and if you decide to add an additional component to it, you are actually at a space where you can grow and you have that support to grow. Mhmm. A lot of other coworking spaces, they're just there to provide the space and whatever amenities. But when it comes to actually having that personal touch, that one on one touch, you don't see a lot of coworking spaces doing that. They just provide the service and that's it. But one of the things that I love about soft Saltbox, and I've seen the growth over the years, because I know Saltbox is still a new concept as well. But I've seen over the years how Saltbox has has started to pay more attention to that one on one, attention, even with the, adding the logistics services and stuff. But if for those businesses who are expanding, who may want to outsource, shipping and distribution to maybe, another, outlet when I'm like, oh, hey. If that service can be provided right where I actually, rent office space at or warehouse space at, that's all that's all, the benefit. And, it's all gravy from there. So I just love the fact of the growth aspect. And when we decided to add, merchandise to, the vision, right now everything is done online via the online outlet that we actually have our our distribution agreement with. But when I thought about it, I said, hey. I may want to start doing things locally. I may want to start shipping from in house. You know what I'm saying? So, for those people who are local and for those people we have a personal relationship with, you know, nationwide, I said, how will I be able to do that effectively? And when I saw Saltbox adding in their services as it relates to this, I was like, oh, this is a perfect marriage. So to me, like, I believe in being in a situation where it's a win win for everyone. And, where I was prior like I said, it really was a blessing in disguise because where I was prior, they didn't have a podcast studio or photography studio. Of course, they had meeting rooms and stuff, and and they did have a space for us to have events. If we wanted to actually do a product launch or a campaign launch or anything of that nature, if we wanted to have seminars and stuff like that, that was space to actually hold those type of small events and networking events. But when it came to having our own content studio, podcast studio, my podcast was done actually in my office because it was big enough to do that. But when it came to photo shoots, I had to either find a photographer studio to do that ad, you know, to go outside of that. But here at Saltbox, everything is in house. Podcast studio in house. Content photography studio in house. Another big benefit that people need to realize that's unique to Saltbox is that it has turned into, like, a one stop shop, not not just for services from Saltbox, but when you network with other members that are here in Saltbox and find out what type of product or services they have, there's no need to do that much research on Google. You can just research the director within Saltbox and get whatever you need. Yeah. It Okay. I love the networking and potential collaboration and partnership that's here at each Saltbox facility. So that's what I love. Yeah. I mean, going back to more traditional three p l's, like, you are on-site. You and your products and you and your services are all in one place. It's not you running your business from one location and then having your products in a warehouse somewhere else. But yeah. Those are all really good points. And it sounds like for you, the amenities are really a big thing. So having, like you said, the content studio, having the podcast studio, just having all of that under one roof and being able to collaborate with other entrepreneurs. It sounds like for your specific use case like that has been really useful. Cool. So I wanna wrap up the section on founder energy versus founder reality. So what founders really need to do? Remember that your ops evolve with your mission. So you're not always gonna be stagnant in one place. You're gonna be growing. So going back to Mac Matt's point, understanding what you need might be different from what someone else needs, but recognizing that need pretty early on. You also need a workspace that's gonna support both your presence and your production. So Mika was talking about all those amenities. He was talking about being on-site, talking with other members. What really works for you and understanding that, like I said early on, similar to your ops, is gonna be really useful. And then lastly, flexibility that fits the season you're in, not just the size you are. So having that ability to go up or down like we talked about is gonna be really important. Okay. So moving into our next section, I wanna talk a little bit about what most founders never say aloud, but they should be saying. So these are gonna be questions that don't always make it into strategy decks. You know, the 2AM founder thoughts that you get, you wake up, you're like, oh, crap. Did I do this today? That sort of thing. Or am I doing this right? Is it too early to get help? So, Matt, I wanna go back to you because you're the expert here, in terms of ops. So how should a founder think about outsource outsourcing, excuse me, versus maintaining control? We've touched on that a little bit, but I wanna hear how you're having those conversations with some of the brands you work with. Yeah. I I I know we mentioned that a few minutes ago or, you know, started sort of, suggesting it. But, you know, maybe just to kinda dig into that point I made earlier. I know a couple have joined since then. You know, in addition to that sort of no no one size fits all dynamic, you know, I'm I'm I'm a, an ardent believer that, an entrepreneur, who represents a brand should maintain control of the logistics, the fulfillment, for as long as possible. And for as long as possible might mean a month, it might mean a year, it might mean, you know, forever. Right? Again, it all depends on the brand. You know, common question I get is, well, how do you know when it's time to outsource to a three p l to, like, release control of it? Right? And without sounding overly tongue in cheek or unhelpful, I say, well, it depends. Right? And, generally, you know when it's time to get rid of it and have someone else do it. I mean, generally, my, like, philosophy is that a brand, you know, an entrepreneur I'll I'll kinda use those two somewhat interchangeably. You know, a brand, I'm a believer that a successful business is one where consumers start to, like, create a verb for that business. Right? Like, I'm gonna Amazon this. I'm gonna I'm gonna grab an Uber. I'm gonna Google something. Or, you know, maybe nowadays, it's I'm gonna, you know, GPT something. Right? You know, etcetera, Claude or, you know, whatever your AI tool of choice is. And, obviously, those are massive, massive businesses. Right? But, like, you need to be famous for something. And when you think about the most successful businesses, at least in this country, you know, in The US, there's typically something that you immediately think about why you love that brand or business. Right? And it doesn't have to be a you know, you don't have to necessarily be shipping physical goods. Right? Google is not an ecommerce company. But, like, there's probably one or, in Google's case, probably five things that you immediately think about why you like Google or why you like Netflix or why you like Amazon, etcetera. So I say all that because it's really important for you as an entrepreneur, as a brand owner, to think about, like, what is my core competency? Is it fulfillment? Is it logistics? Are consumers going to be purchasing my product in twelve months from now or a couple years from now because I have the best logistics? Or similarly, are they not going to purchase from me because my logistics is not amazing, but it's good enough? And the answer from most brands in my experience having, you know, immersed myself with hundreds and hundreds of brands, I mean, probably thousands of brands at this point, is that for most ecommerce brands, and I'm I'm looking around my desk here, there's a lot of stuff on my desk and, you know, from a number of brands. And none of them, I'm like, oh gosh. I keep buying from that brand because they have wonderful logistics. No. I keep buying from them because, you know, for a number of reason. You know, the quality of the product, the the the, you know, inspiration behind the brand, you you know, whatever it is. Right? You know, their their missions and values. I mean, there's a there's a number of reasons why I transact in certain places. So as an entrepreneur, I would sort of challenge you to think like, okay. If if I'm gonna be successful, it's because, I've, you know, I've I've had the the best merchandise or I have the the best values behind my brand. It's not necessarily because you have the best logistics. So what I like about Saltbox is that it gives you that flexibility to say, alright. Maybe month one or year one, I wanna do it myself to get my sea legs. But then as my business evolves and as my needs change and as marketing is pulling more of my attention to focus on that, then I can outsource it to Saltbox's, you know, fulfillment side that can sort of support me there. Or maybe, eventually, I can continue using Saltbox as my core office, but then I outsource my logistics to a more traditional three p l. Sorry. I was on mute. Yes. That those are all really great points. And I love that you touched on, eventually being able to outsource to a three p l. So again, going back to knowing when the time is for that, and recognizing that maybe your ops is taking up a lot of your time when you should be focusing on other more important aspects like marketing or customer experience or customer support. And I think one of the things a lot of people forget about starting a business and running a business is that you have to do all of those things. You wear all of the hats. You are the CEO, but you're also the marketing lead. You're also the content person. You're also the social media manager. I see this a lot with my husband, actually, who owns his own business. Mico, he owns, similar to you. It's a post production company. So, I've seen it firsthand. You know, he is on calls like, oh, it's 09:00, but we have to, you know, make sure the client has what they need. And he's doing everything from marketing to email to, you know, producing everything. So seeing all of that, it's it's definitely, inspiring, but it makes you think like, okay. At what point is the breaking point to say, I need help, and I need somebody to take over the things that aren't worth my time anymore, so that your business can keep thriving. So last question for you, Matt, in this section. I'm curious. What's one misconception people have about outsourcing logistics? That's easy and that you can sort of rinse your hands of everything and have this magical thing called an outsourced fulfillment provider just do it all perfectly. Right? I sometimes joke, but it's not really a joke. It's it's the reality that you almost like, the moment you outsource it, you almost have to be more involved in kind of the day to day. Your involvement just changes. Right? Instead of, you know, packing boxes and and and and putting tape on the boxes and printing FedEx labels or shipping labels, you're now managing your partner. So, you know, I see that with kind of, you know, you know, more start up brands. You know, maybe you're doing a 100 orders a month or maybe you're doing 50,000 orders a month. And it's the same where everyone believes that, oh, yeah. I'm gonna outsource to do a three p l, and now I don't really have to talk to them anymore because they're professionals and experts. No. No. No. Like, you need to make you need to be in close contact with them. All they do well, I shouldn't say all they do, but a big part of what a three p l does is they own the leases, and they're good at managing people. But the communication, especially now that you're not doing it yourself, someone else is doing it. It's sort of like being in a long distance relationship. Right? Going back to my marriage example. Right? You cannot talk to that person just because they're not physically where you are. No. Like, it requires even more communication so that there continues to be alignment. So, don't believe that, you know, outsourcing to a three p l is like the easy button or the simple button. Not at all. Yeah. I I love these marriage analogies and relationship analogies. It's honestly perfect. Yeah. All great points. So that was sort of the upside of things. Now I wanna move back to you, Miko, and really talk about, your space and your workspace and your setup as, a creative entrepreneur. So what felt intimidating about stepping into a new space like Saltbox? Was there anything you were worried about? You know, Matt was just talking about communication and how, you know, when you're working with a three p l, you might have to talk to them more and it might be a little more difficult. Did you have any worries or any concerns about moving into a new space? Whether it was Saltbox or just anywhere, to be honest. I think, I think when it comes to moving with any space, you have to look at, okay, what's the environment? What type of corporate culture does that environment have? Does this environment feel welcoming? Is the, decor aesthetics, does it fit, you know, your brand and everything like that? And I, I think like we've discussed before, because there is some competition here. But the difference between Saltbox and the competition is that the aesthetics and the the whole, the overall decor and the way you all present Saltbox because you all have a brand as well. And so the way that you all present it even with the decor and the design of the building is very, very unique and different than the other competition. And also the amenities and what you all have to offer is also very unique to the style of the brand and the and the customers and the clients that you all want to go after. The target market that you all want to go after. And so, like I said, you know, I was sold, off of the first tour, because it was the aesthetics. It was the amenities. But the fact that y'all had a separate content studio, and then you added the podcast studio, it's like, oh, wow. Room for growth. Like I was telling you before, particular this particular location, Southwest at that time did not have any outside events, and stuff like that, you know, or either offer the space to do that. And we was the first to, to hold our first Small Business Network event here with our, relationship that we currently have with the, with the LGBTQ Chamber of Commerce here in Georgia called the Out Georgia Business Alliance and also the Metro Atlanta Association of Professionals. So it was a win win for everybody. Because every time we bring an event here, we we always ask for a representative of Saltbox to stay to introduce the concept. When they leave, we take them on the tour. So it's a win win. So, I think when you go to any space, always look at, the, the corporate environment. What are they offering? Is there room to grow? Is it a safe environment? Is it secure? Are your products and everything that you store here gonna be actually secure and, maintained professionally? So there you know, those a lot of the basic things that you will look for when you actually look for a space, is very important. Yeah. That's a good point. We always say, that Saltbox was built by entrepreneur for entrepreneurs. So our CEO, Tyler, he actually owns him and his wife own their own ecommerce brand. And, he has a lot of experience in the entrepreneur world. His grandma was, a Mary Kay specialist, so she sold from her house. So she kind of grew up in that environment. And that's something that you see shine throughout all of our buildings is that attention to detail and the level of understanding of what brands need and what entrepreneurs need. So I'm really glad you called that out because that's definitely something we focus on. So we have one minute left in this section. So I wanna close out, Nico, just asking you, what has having a production hub style workspace unlocked for you creatively and professionally? Obviously, you're adding ecommerce, but if there's anything else as well. I like the fact that, you know, because at my other space, I had a big enough space to do both my business and my, you know, production side. You know what I'm saying? When moving to Southwest, I had to kinda take a smaller office space. But when I saw the content studio and then the podcast studio, then I didn't have to worry about, okay. How am I gonna set my office space up to do my podcast? I had to bring in special guests to do, in studio, one on one interviews and stuff like that. Didn't have to worry about that. Because I, because of the amenities that you all provide, I was able okay. I can do photo shoots here, book photo shoots. I can actually, you know, bring special guests here who wanna do, like, live in house interviews with our guests. I have a space to do that. And all of that is included with the rent. So I love that. And and plus, that actually helps with my budget, still operating as a small business or solo entrepreneur that operates within our budget. So that's what is a main draw. That's why you see a lot of more production hubs and creatives coming into concepts like Saltbox to actually grow their business. Love that. So closing out this section, before we have one final section, what founders actually need. So we covered that you need permission to stop duct taping your operations together. So Matt talked about, knowing when the time is to outsource, knowing, how to find the right partner. You don't have to do it all. You can find help. I know I'm a control freak. I like to do everything myself, but there are times where I'm like, alright. I gotta give it up. It's not working for me. This isn't serving me. Pass it off. So always keep that in mind. Your options don't have to require outsourcing your soul. So Mhmm. Like, Nat was talking about, you might have to be more on top of a three p l provider than you think. And that can be taxing and stressful in and of itself. But there are other options, which Matt has in his wonderful platform at third person for you to discover and find the right fit that, works for you and your business. And then lastly, you wanna have a setup that reflects your identity. So Mico talked about all of the things that Saltbox, offers that, you know, relate back to his personal values and the things that he wants, for his business and how your partner should reflect that. So love to hear all these insights from a brand perspective and ops perspective. I think it really ties everything together about, creating a checklist for yourself. Okay. So moving into our final section, I believe, yes, before q and a. So really gonna be spotlighting, Nico here and how we can build a media brand from the inside out. So, Matt, I would love for you to jump in here too and have any comments from an ops perspective because I think that's why a lot of folks are on today, and we would love to hear that. But, yeah, Mikko, I wanna start with you. What did a day in your business look like before Saltbox? So whether it was at the coworking space or even the in between, how did you run your business, and, what were some challenges that you faced? Basically, a typical day would be, you know, checking emails, you know, you know, taking care of, like, basic administrative stuff, you know, seeing, okay, do we have, like, an in studio, session to do today? What about project deadlines for the remainder of the day? Okay. There are any casting opportunities for our talent? Do we have, any artist management or development sessions that we have to do? Looking at the event schedule. Okay. What events that we have to be at to do media coverage at and stuff like that as it relates to our podcast, which is now in our fifteenth season of broadcasting. And so that's basically a typical day. And, one of the things that was a challenge before when we, before we actually ran into our last, co working space was the co co working space we had before that, there was no space, to grow or to actually have our own events in house. And so, so that particular challenge was rectified when we moved to that last space that I had. And like I said, the biggest thing with Saltbox, what was the biggest deal breaker was, okay, will we be able to stew, our own in house events if we if need be when it comes to doing a campaign launch or a product launch, especially now that we're bringing in the ecommerce side. We may wanna have our own ecommerce or product launch, you know, at the location in our space. So, that was one of the things that we was looking at when it came to looking at a different office space where we can actually grow and expand more, which is, like I said, which is very important. So, in building that media brand, not only do you wanna make sure that your brand matches what your passion is is because you never go into business just for the money. You wanna make sure that when you go into business, it's something that is passionate, something that, you know, makes you more fulfilled as a person. You know, I always say money is the icing on the cake. You know what I'm saying? So, you know, once you actually operate in your passion and in your destiny, I mean, the money is gonna always flow and be there because that that's all part law of attraction. So, but, when it comes to your brand, once you understand what your brand is, whether it be a media or any, other industry, once you understand your purpose and once you understand what your brand is, then you have to make sure that you are in a business environment that compliments and supports your brand. You have to make sure that you're in an environment where, you know, it's safe for you to grow and expand without any limitations or hookups. So yeah. Yeah. I love that perspective. And, Matt, I wanna pass it to you because, obviously, you are also an entrepreneur. You founded your own company, Third Person. So just tell me a little bit about that process. Like, what made you want to start Third Person? How did you build that from the inside out? Yeah. I, so third person, really started, as a, sort of as a spin off of the consulting business that I was, that I had founded back in 2017. So after I spent, you know, the first sort of chapter of my career, the first decade or so, inside startups, helping them kind of grow from within as the, you know, head of ops or, you know, the supply chain person there, I realized that the skill set that I developed was very much, desirable, and and sought after. So I decided in 2017 to start a consulting business where I was helping, you know, emerging high growth, ecommerce brands solve or hopefully avoid a lot of the pitfalls that I faced when I was kind of in house as as as an operator. And over the years in running the consulting business, I discovered that, the number one service by far that brands are coming to me seeking support with was helping them find the right three p l partner, you know, the right fulfillment provider. It wasn't, you know, helping with shipping rates or procuring packaging, although all that stuff happened quite a bit. It was like, I'm I'm I'm outgrowing my kitchen table or my garage, or my public storage unit. And by the way, it's Saltbox while you're in a number of locations. You're not in every city in America. Right? I wish, you know, have a little bit of FOMO here and Meeco speak, and I'm sitting here in Nashville. So, unfortunately, there's not a Saltbox yet, here in Nashville. So, but anyways, yeah, I started third person, really as a way to sort of productize or digitize and scale the offering that I ended up helping brands in my consulting business of, you know, essentially leading, three PL searches. So what I built here and, you know, this is different than my consulting business where I would charge brands, folks like yourself, a fee, you know, project fee, a consulting fee to kinda lead this process. What I built with third person is a completely free experience. And part of the impetus in this was, allowing or enabling me to work with as many brands as humanly possible. And now that it's software, right, it's technology, I can support hundreds and thousands of brands literally on any given day, which would have been impossible in my consulting business. Right? I can only work with maybe a dozen or a couple dozen clients a year until I had capacity. And for many brands, they couldn't afford my fees. Right? Not that I was expensive, but, you know, thousands of dollars is a lot of money to a smaller brand. But now they can experience a lot of the the wherewithal and a lot of the knowledge that I was offering in my consulting business on this platform completely free for, you know, brands and small businesses to use. So, I'm really proud of it, and, and, you know, we're only about fifteen months young. So, you know, we're still a small business, you know, still still truly in that startup phase. But, you know, just like many of y'all, like, you know, I'm working at it, and every month we're trying to get, you know, a few percent better than the prior month. And, you know, so far, so good. I love that. And it sounds like you similar to Saltbox, it's entrepreneurship. You're building for entrepreneurs. So, would love for you at some point, maybe towards the end of the, the session to just drop a link to third person's website so folks can check it out. Use that free resource of, you know, using the platform, figuring out what the right fit might be. Would love to just share that with folks if that's possible. Yep. For sure. Okay. Cool. So one more question in this section before we go into q and a. So this will be for both Matt and Nico. Feel free to, start, Nico, if you want. Where do you feel most in the flow now? Whether that's your logistics, your content, creative, or all of the above as a small business owner. I can just say now, my flow is better now because, everything is really about energy. And it's about making sure that, like, we stated before, making sure that you're in a space that aligns, not just with your business brand, but even when it comes to energy, making sure that you're in an environment where the energy breeds success, breeds maturity, breeds growth, breeds expansion, where you're in an environment that's not stagnant. So the flow and the energy is better now that I'm here. And it it it's it's really, you know and the fact that you have the opportunity to network with other members and do possible collaborations and partnerships and outsource things to them. And, you know, because I know me and some of the other members, we talked about that how that's the the wonderful benefit with Saltbox is that the wonderful collaboration and, networking opportunity amongst our sales and how we're able to work together on projects for each other is, really remarkable. You know? I don't have to go outside of the building if I need printing, whether it be, like, T shirt printing, you know, any type of paper printing, banner printing, and stuff like that. We got businesses in house that can do all of that. So I was like, oh, wow. Got wine distributors here, event decor here, you know, audio visual business is here. So I'm like, shoot. If I had any events set up and stuff There you go. Mailbox directory. So like I said, it's a win win. So this is a gem. So, yeah, so like I said, just the flow and the energy is, really, really different, which is very important. So yeah. Yeah. I I definitely agree with that. I think in all things in life, flow and energy is very important. And especially when you are building something you're passionate about, you want that to align with where you're running your business from and how you're running your business. So I love to hear that Saltbox has been a safe space for you to do that. Alright, Matt. Close this out with this section. Where do you feel most in flow now? I know your business, obviously, is a little different, but just from a logistics perspective or even, like, as you run third person, where do you feel most in flow? Josh, no. That's a good question. I, yeah, I I'm I'm again, I I I have a little bit of, FOMO, like I said earlier. I mean, just kinda hearing Mikko talk about all the resources around him and that sort of community aspect, is something that I don't have here. Right? I'm even thinking about, like you know, when I first got introduced to Saltbox years ago, I was like, this is brilliant. Right? It's kind of like WeWork, but for, I don't know, entrepreneurs or for people, like, creating physical things. Right? And, you know, all those all those relationships and amenities is so great. So, maybe I'll just kinda send this feeler out to those of us, who work at Saltbox to kinda push for a facility, you know, Saltbox, you know, here in Nashville. But, yeah, I mean, I think, you know, aside from that, you know, I think focus is just so so important, and it's and it's something that entrepreneurs can get distracted by easily, Right? And trying to be everything to everyone, you know, even in my products, you know, with my business. You know, while I'm focused on fulfillment, there's other, categories of, you know, pairing or matching brands with different types of vendors that they need that I can certainly, implement. But, you know, if you if you learn one thing from me today on, you know, this, on this on this webinar, it is to to really focus and stay focused, and don't let what your best friend tells you, you know, tell tell you you should do to sort of distract you. You know, be the best at something, be famous for something. And, you know, if it takes you another six months or a year to get to focus on something else that you might be interested in, that's okay. But for now, like, figure out how to scale as the expression goes. Figure out how to scale from zero to one before you think about scaling from one to n. So just stay focused and, you know, that'll bring more success. I love that. Yeah. Stay focused. Stay focused and find a place that aligns with you. I love all of this advice. And we have a lot of people in the chat too saying, like, this is true. I feel this. This is awesome. Energy is very important. So love to hear that it's resonating with folks on the call too. So we have about four minutes left. I want to leave a couple minutes for q and a. So feel free to drop any questions you have for Matt and Mikko in the chat, or more specifically, the q and a tab. But whatever is easier for you, we would love to answer some things live. So drop those whenever you guys are ready. While we wait for folks to add their questions, I'll start with one of my own. And I think you actually made a really good point earlier, Matt, about AI and how that's kind of transforming the way that we work. And I think you said something like, AI is gonna replace the people who don't know how to use AI or something. Then you said something along those lines. So your answer can be AI, but I'm curious if there's another tool that has really changed your day to day and how you run your business and just how you stay focused in general. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm I'm I'm probably, like, a four out of 10 in terms of my, like, literacy and AI, and I think I'm pretty decent. You know, I know it's it's, you know, a ton of buzz right now, but, if you're not using, you know, even a a very basic AI tool like ChatGPT on a daily basis, I don't wanna say you're doing something wrong, but you're not being smart with your time. And time is so, you know, in addition to focus, time is really, really important. So use it, and gain fluency. You don't wanna be like my parents and, you know, be so, like, naive with, like, the Internet. Right? Because, like, this is kind of like the new Internet, right, of, like, thirty years ago. Yeah. Yeah. And then and then just really quickly, in terms of, like, a different tool that I love I personally love, many have probably heard of it, maybe use it too, but Calendly, which is like a scheduling, software company, like, helps you kind of send out your calendar link and integrates with all your calendars. I manage a few of my own calendars. So, I was kinda late to the party. I'd I'd I'd I'd bought it maybe a year ago, and, like, it is such a time saver. So, you know, you should explore that too, and it's very inexpensive. Yeah. We use clockwise here, and it has been absolutely game changing. Like, I don't have to go back and forth with people to plan a meeting. Oh, does Tuesday at 2PM work for you? No. Wait. Let me check my calendar. You can just give them the link. They pick the time for themselves. It shows your availability. It is amazing. So I second that. Mika, what about you? Is there, an affordable tool that you've been using to change your day to day? Well, actually, speaking of AI, not only have I been, testing out ChatGPT, but I've been really more comfortable with, Microsoft Copilot, which is their, AI tool, especially with those people who are still operating off of a Windows based platform. Microsoft Copilot is like especially that because I think they just did another Windows, update, and it is really, really, working for me. I'm also using, Perplexity dot AI, which is an AI which is a research based only AI tool. I mean, it's really good when it get, when it comes to digging into things that you wanna do deep dive or deep research on. Perplexity AI specializes in just research based only and stuff like that. So I'm trying all different variations of AI including on the creative side to see what, that that does. It's something there's a lot of them out there. So I'm just trying to find out which one would be best for my business as my business brand because I'm actually thinking about incorporating that into some of the services that we provide to the talents and to some of our clients, as it relates to production. So yeah. But, Microsoft Copilot. I mean, that that's like my best friend now. Mhmm. So I haven't heard of that one because I don't use Microsoft, but I'm glad that they have tools for both Mac users and PC users because I feel like sometimes, you know, you get only Mac products, and then you're like, wait. This doesn't work with my software. I don't know how to use this. So I'm glad to hear that you've kind of found a solution. Yeah. Because I know we yeah. Because I had to learn, I think, because of us being in production, both graphic design, web design, audio, video, visual, we had to learn both platforms, both Windows and Mac. So yeah. That makes sense. Okay. One final question to close us out, and I think this is one important question. What would you go back and tell yourself six months ago? You go first with Matt. Well, I was gonna say the same things, but, oh, sure. Yeah. I and, you know, I know we're over time here, so I'll try to be succinct. Yeah. That's a really great I thought you say six years ago, which is probably a little easier to think, but, yeah, six months ago. You can say six years ago. Whatever works for you. Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, certainly in my world, you know, tariffs and all the, you know, shenanigans there have been a, you know, sort of a hot topic, and it started about six months ago, you know, kind of, you know, around around Christmas, of last year when things started getting, pretty nasty. And, you know, I think many many brands that I was talking to, you know, thought that the world was gonna end and that, you know, their their businesses would end. And and, you know, unfortunately, it it it has been, you know, devastating on many brands. You know, tariffs are real. You know, it's a real cost. But, without kind of, oversimplifying it, I think just remembering that, like, you're gonna be okay. Right? And, like, just keep focusing on yourself and, you know, you're gonna get through it and and just be thoughtful. Don't be brash with certain decisions that you need to make. I love that answer. Likewise. Always make sure that you are prepared for emergencies. There's old saying that goes, expect the best and prepare for the worst. And I think when those of us who are in entrepreneurship, entrepreneurship, many people kind of forget, we are so busy with the day to day. Sometimes we forget to kind of take a step back and do the proper evaluations that we need to do. Okay. You know, what happens if this doesn't work out or this messes up or I have a snag here? How would I still be able to operate in the meantime? And stuff like that. So I think one of the things that we need to learn how to do as entrepreneurs is making sure that we no longer operate in survival mode, but make sure that we operate, work smarter, not harder. And make sure that we start thriving in our businesses. And make sure that we always have a plan for emergencies. Because I think that's how a lot of businesses end up suffering even during the pandemic. You know what I'm saying? You know, there was really no plans for emergencies and stuff like that. And even though that was a unique emergency, but you're supposed to always make sure that you have plans just in case something, beyond your control happens. So yeah. Always be thinking ahead. I love that. Well, thank you both so much, and thank you everyone who joined. So like I mentioned at the beginning, whether you're scaling SKUs like Nico or you're building an empire from your laptop at home like Matthew, there's a way to do it without the chaos. We do have different membership plans here at Saltbox, and then also check out Matt's platform third person. If you are in the market for a new fulfillment provider, we have a range of membership types, and Matthew has a range of companies that, work for your specific business. So be sure to check that out. And final closing, there will be a replay after this, and you will also get a, founder flow checklist, which could be helpful in, analyzing your current business state, to determine what you need, if it's the right time for a fulfillment provider, etcetera. So you'll be getting that in your inbox shortly. Be on the lookout for that, and we hope to see you at the next Volpar. Thank you guys so much. I enjoyed this. Thank you.